Central Line

Episode Number: 118

Episode Title: The Leaders’ Episode

Recorded: December 2023

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

VOICE OVER:

Welcome to ASA’s Central Line, the official podcast series of the American Society of Anesthesiologists, edited by Dr. Adam Striker.

DR. RON HARTER:

Welcome to Central Line. I'm dr. Ron Harter, president of ASA. I'm here today with ASA’s new chief executive officer, Brian Reilly, for a conversation on the state of the specialty and the society. We're going to share a bit about ourselves and each other as we kick off the new year with a twist on a podcast takeover. I'm looking forward to this conversation. So thanks for joining me, Brian.

MR. BRIAN REILLY:

Dr. Harter, thanks very much.

DR. HARTER:

And please, Brian, call me Ron.

MR. REILLY:

Will do. Thank you Ron.

DR. HARTER:

All right. So Brian, when this podcast airs, you will have officially been in your your role as the ASA's new CEO for about a week. So even though you've been with ASA for much longer, for our listeners who don't know your background and your experience, can you please give them a few highlights of your journey to get to this role?

MR. REILLY:

I joined ASA in October of 2016 as its Chief Digital Strategy Officer, and I became ASA’s Chief Operating officer in February of 2018. I was in that role until I moved into the CEO position, uh, a week ago, on January 1st of this year, uh, before I joined ASA, I spent my career in media and advertising with a focus on digital since the mid 1990s. Um, I came to ASA from Crain Communications, a business media company probably best known to our members as the publisher of Modern Healthcare. I was Crain's chief digital officer before joining ASA.

And, Ron, you've got a great story to tell as well. How would you answer that question?

DR. HARTER:

My ASA history is, uh, I'm about as close to an ASA lifer as you can get. As far as a member, I joined ASA as a resident member when I did my residency training at Georgetown, and while I was a resident, I ran for and was elected to serve on, uh, ASA's resident component governing council. So that really immersed me very early on into ASA and its governance processes. And I was immediately just overwhelmed with what a great organization that ASA is. And the more that I learned about ASA and the issues that we face within our specialty, the more that I wanted to get further involved. So as I finished residency, I came back to Ohio, which is where I had grown up. And other than being out in the DC area for my residency, I've lived in Ohio my whole life. And so I joined the Ohio Society of Anesthesiologists, then as as a new anesthesiologist. And very early on there, I got involved with the Ohio Society of Anesthesiologists and served in every officer role there. Ultimately, um, being president of OSA and then while I was very actively engaged in the Ohio society, also remained very involved in the American Society of Anesthesiologists as a member of the House of delegates, serving on several committees, eventually serving on the board of directors as Ohio's representative to the ASA Board of Directors, and then from there, I ran successfully for Vice Speaker of the House of delegates and then speaker of the House of delegates. And then a couple of years ago as first vice president, uh, which then ascends to president elect. And now my current role is president. So it's been about 30 years plus that I've been involved in some capacity, uh, with ASA leadership in various roles. So it's not a short path for sure.

MR. REILLY:

Uh, that's a great story and a perfect illustration of how engagement with ASA and your state component can lead to great things. What's something that our listeners wouldn't know about you, though? Let's go beyond the bios and tell them something surprising. But but you go first.

DR. HARTER:

Okay. The fun fact, I suppose, is that I am a drummer and I played drums in the band all through school, and I got a drum set when I was in high school, and I still have a drum set to this day, and I played for many years with some fellow musician friends who also are not professional musicians. But, uh, we just have a great time just playing rock and roll music. So we didn't do much in that respect during Covid. And even prior to that, one of the members had some medical issues. But we recently got back together again a couple of months ago, and it's definitely something I enjoy when when I can carve out some time to do it. How about you, Brian?

MR. REILLY:

You know, music is a big thing in my life as well. I love the Americana genre of music, which in the Venn diagram of music, lies sort of at the intersection of country, rock and folk. So. Artists like John Prine, uh, Robert Earl Keen, Lucinda Williams, Steve Earle, uh, Brandi Carlile, Jason Isbell, Turnpike Troubadours. You know, a lot of others. :ove them all. So music is is a big part of my life. Uh, another fun fact is I played rugby in college, and I remain a huge fan of the sport with, uh, the United States and Ireland teams being my favorites. And I have also developed a to be a big fan of Gaelic sports. So Gaelic football and hurling, which are even more incomprehensible than rugby, but they're wonderful to watch. So I really love those sports.

DR. HARTER:

Great. And I'll just throw in that a fun fact that I have learned about you is that you are a extremely loyal alum of, uh, Notre Dame and that you were saddened, uh, earlier this year when Ohio State, on a last second touchdown, uh, defeated your Fighting Irish. So there was some good natured ribbing that went on between the two of us. With that, we are both extremely loyal to our alma maters in football.

MR. REILLY:

That's for sure. What what saddened me the most about that game, Ron, was that we decided to play defense with only ten players for the last two plays of the game, so we kind of gave it away to you guys.

DR. HARTER:

Is an exciting game, but I was a little more, uh, excited with the outcome, I think, than you were.

MR. REILLY:

No doubt. No doubt.

Well, hey, let's talk about some challenges we face as a specialty and as a medical society and, even more importantly than the challenges, what we're doing to to address them. So from your perspective, what are some of the priorities you expect to tackle in the coming year?

DR. HARTER:

Yeah. Thank you. Um, and this is something that, in the run up to my time as president, I had some time to really think about this and plot out to the extent that any of us can control, really the agenda when you're when you're leading a big organization like ASA. But I have had a very large interest in wellness initiatives. Burnout has been a problem within health care and specific to anesthesiology. We have seen the percentage of anesthesiologists who are at risk for burnout or even meet the criteria for burnout syndrome has increased. Uh, before the pandemic, it was very high, and then the pandemic only caused it to be an even more prevalent issue within our profession. So, um, a few years ago, when I was, uh, Speaker of the House, the president of the ASA at that time, Jim Grant, asked me to lead an ad hoc committee on physician suicide because that was being recognized as a particular problem within our specialty. Then that spawned a ad hoc committee on physician well-being that I was the initial chair for. And then that became a standing committee. And, uh, Amy Vinson chairs that. And, uh, we have a lot of really just expert and engaged members who are involved in, uh, really leading our wellness efforts. I'm very proud of what ASA has done to date. We have a tremendous wealth of resources available to not only our members, but to the public on various wellness issues and as well as links to other wellness resources in the health care sphere. Um, and we are on the brink, I would say, of being able to provide for our members a really terrific resource, uh, with respect to wellness and some tools to prevent burnout. More to come, hopefully soon on that. But we're we're nearing an agreement on that. And that that I think will be a really a wonderful complement to the things that we already have made available to our members. You know, I think that's that's an important service that ASA can provide for its members beyond what we're already doing in that space.

Um, certainly from an advocacy and regulatory standpoint, probably the most pressing issue for our specialty and for our patients we've been dealing with for several years now. But it's coming forward, probably in this next year, that the Veterans Administration has a proposed policy that would allow, uh, certified registered nurse anesthetist within the VA system to practice without any physician oversight, which, uh, regardless of what, uh, whatever the laws are within the state that that VA hospital is in. So this is really something that that ASA is very, very aggressively working towards. Our veterans deserve the best level of health care, certainly the best level of anesthesia care, not to remove the physician anesthesiologist from the care that they they receive for their surgeries within the VA system. So I had the honor of speaking before a congressional committee, uh, a few months ago on that and expressing our concerns to the Subcommittee on Health from the Committee on Veterans Affairs within the House of Representatives. And, uh, we continue to have conversations with congressional and administrative leaders within the VA and within related governmental entities. There will be a comment period for the public at some point in the foreseeable future. And so there'll be more information that we’ll be asking our members to provide comments on that. Anyone who who hasn't yet explored it, safevacare.org is our website that gives more information and provides opportunity to provide comment on those proposed rules.

And then the other thing that really is ongoing work within ASA, and it's it's one of those things that I don't think you ever can say is mission accomplished, but we're really in a very intentional way looking at within the organization, um, what are things that we can do to reduce barriers to being involved in leadership and engagement within ASA for our members, regardless of where they practice, the type of practice they're in, and certainly without any limitations based on their demographic characteristics, you know, be it gender, ethnicity, etc. So we're making some good initial strides in that regard to increase the transparency to our members as to how to get involved within ASA, whether that's at the committee level or other leadership opportunities within the organization. And I think we’ve made some good initial strides. We have, I would say, a growing growingly diverse and inclusive, um, organization within ASA for our members when you look at things like, uh, membership on committees, leadership of committees, at the chair and vice chair level, etc., Our board of directors is also becoming increasingly diverse. Our administrative council, which is our um, officers also is is moving in a direction where the leaders of our organization more closely represent the composition of our membership. But again, more needs to be done in that in that area. But that's something that really I think every good organization needs to have that as something that's part of their conversation and part of their processes as they as they move forward as an organization. Brian, what priorities would you add to to those?

MR. REILLY:

The ones you outlined are critically important. I would add workforce and payment issues to the list. You know, with workforce, you and I were both at ASA’s Second Workforce Summit at the end of November, and it was a great experience, led by past ASA president, um, Dr. Mary Dale Peterson and Tom Miller, who is ASA director of analytics and research services and also our director of the ASA Center for Anesthesia Workforce Studies. Workforce is such a complex issue, but our plan to attack both the supply and demand side of the equation from multiple angles, I think is really exciting. There aren't going to be any quick fixes, probably, but the work we're doing now is essential to, uh, you know, to our mission to advance the practice and secure the future.

Uh, on payment. We're also hitting that from many angles, both short term and long term. In the short time we've been fighting, as we seem to do every year, uh, the cuts proposed to Medicare reimbursement. And we've been battling against the extremely flawed implementation of the No Surprises Act. The legislation itself, as you know, was pretty good, but the regulatory agencies really botched its implementation. We've been very pleased to lead a coalition that includes ASAP and ACR in support of the Texas Medical Association's very successful efforts to challenge how the law has been put into place, and we're going to continue to fight to make sure the law works the way Congress intended. In the longer term, our Committee on Economics, under the leadership of Doctor Jonathan Gaul and ASA's new Center for Anesthesia and Perioperative Economics, led by Doctor Chris Troianos, are going to find new ways to optimize anesthesia payment. Ron, what are your thoughts?

DR. HARTER:

So I think we've identified that we have more than a few storm clouds that are gathering over us. But there also are some silver linings with those storm clouds. So when when you look at the state of our specialty and our society, what gives you hope and what gives you optimism for our ability to weather the the storms that we're facing?

MR. REILLY:

Yeah. Great question. And I completely agree that there is a lot to be very excited about. For me it's pretty easy what the number one thing to be excited about is that is anesthesiology is among the most popular medical specialties for young physicians and medical students. Uh, we have a consistent flow of young physicians coming into the specialty, and that's very exciting. You see it in the match numbers. You see it at our annual meeting. You see it even now, more and more at our ASA board meetings, where younger board members are taking on stronger, more influential voices in the meetings and guiding us to where we need to go. Uh, what we need to do is make sure ASA stays relevant to them throughout the entire arc of their careers.

And I also have to say that one of the things that makes me most excited is I move into my new role is having the chance to lead such a wonderful, dedicated staff. Each and every one of my colleagues at ASA is committed to the mission of the organization and supporting our members so they can flourish both professionally and also personally. So when I think about the power that comes from combining our highly engaged, committed membership with an equally dedicated staff, it really is very humbling and inspiring to me, and I'm very grateful to be a part of it all.

Let me turn that around and ask you, what are you most optimistic about?

DR. HARTER:

Those are really, uh, as well for me, some of the things that that really give me a lot of optimism about the future of our of our specialty. Another thing that I've always felt is really, um, a reason for optimism for maintaining anesthesiologists delivery and anesthesiologists leadership of anesthesia care for our patients in this country is that our patients recognize the critical importance that we bring to their care when they require our services for surgery or for an invasive procedure. And despite any efforts by nurse anesthetists, by the double ANA, in particular, to try and and change that dynamic so that there's no physician involvement, whether it's in the VA or any number of states around the country, there's frequently, um, legislation brought forward that would seek to remove the anesthesiologists from the care of patients, you know, needing anesthesia care. Our patients understand getting anesthesia for for a procedure for a surgery is a big deal. And it is a medical specialty, and it's an important medical specialty. And they don't want to have that relegated to someone who has a lesser level of training. You know, to be clear, nurse anesthetists are terrific advanced practice nurses. They are the top of the heap from the nursing world, but that training that they receive doesn't begin to approach the training and the education that anesthesiologists go through. And it's that medical training that really is critically important and that our patients understand, uh, is important. As long as the patients realize that difference, and that's one of the things that ASA really works to continue to communicate to our patients so that they're they're aware of the difference in training and education between a nurse and a doctor, and that they continue to want to have us involved in their care. So that's what ultimately, I think, uh, preserves our specialty and, and keeps us really as the leaders of anesthesia care in this country.

MR. REILLY:

That's absolutely terrific. I'm really enjoying this conversation, and I have a lot more questions for you. But we need to take a short patient safety break first. So please stay with us. We'll be right back.

DR. JEFF GREEN:

Hi, this is Doctor Jeff Green with the ASA Patient Safety Editorial Board.

Communication gaps during patient handoffs in the perioperative setting increase the risk of patient harm. While electronic tools can improve communication and patient safety during handoffs, low tech strategies can go a long way toward ensuring continuity of care and accurate information exchange. These include standardized checklists and templates, as well as patient safety communication techniques such as read back, repeat back, and other closed loop approaches. Formalized structured templates ensure that key information is communicated to all personnel involved in care transitions, such as for OR to PACU or OR to ICU transfers. For shift changes in the OR, a less formal and more portable three by five note card with key safety information can be handed to the clinician, assuming care of the patient. With both approaches, face to face communication between providers is essential for a safe handoff. There is no one size fits all strategy to safe handoffs, but adopting a standardized process may improve patient outcomes.

VOICE OVER:

For more patient safety content, visit asahq.org/patientsafety.

MR. REILLY:

So, Ron, we're back. Uh, representing the membership of such a diverse organization is got to be very challenging. How are you grappling with the challenges of taking in so many different opinions from our large, diverse membership while also speaking with one voice?

DR. HARTER:

Yes. Thank you for that question. And certainly with an organization the size of of ASA, you know, more than 57,000 uh, members altogether, there are going to be a variety of practice types, practice styles. We have members who provide anesthesia in the OR setting, as well as pain physicians and critical care physicians, as well as all the subspecialties for OR anesthesia--pediatrics, OB, uh, cardiac, etc.. And so for ASA with one voice to represent all of those clinical interests as well as the unique interests that arise depending on whether the practice is small, medium, large, uh, whether it's in an urban setting or rural setting, a suburban setting. All of those present some unique opportunities and unique challenges for our members in those various settings. So we do strive to hear from our members and to have our finger on the pulse of what are the the issues that are most concerning to our members and to have those also be our priorities and the issues that we address? Certainly, we don't always perfectly represent every member's list of concerns, but I think we do a good job of representing the most important issues to our specialty and to ASA.

One of the things that I've come to appreciate in this, in the few weeks that I've been in my role as president, is that we really take great pains to communicate to our members the things that that we're doing as an organization, but also to create opportunities where our members can reach out to us if they feel that there's things that we need to do differently, or focus on areas that they don't feel maybe we're putting enough emphasis on. The president@asahq.org email, I put that in the closing sentence of my Monday morning outreach that goes to all of our members every Monday morning, as as the title would suggest. And I have been really pleased to see that there is a fair amount of of traffic that goes to that email account from our members on a variety of issues. And so I think we have to always be receptive to the voice of the members and really do our best to hear what are the the issues of greatest concern to our members and are those things that we're adequately addressing.

So, Brian, your task with merging the priorities of a very professional staff, as you mentioned earlier, ASA is really tremendously fortunate to have the outstanding staff that we have so talented, so dedicated, so committed to our members and to ASA. But you've got to merge the priorities and concerns of a professional staff with a very strong and engaged physician member leadership. How do you do that in a way that everyone feels that their input is valued and that they're heard, and that they have an opportunity to really pursue the things that that they're passionate about.

MR. REILLY:

Thank you very much for the kind words about our staff. One of the best things about ASA is the collaboration between our physician leadership and staff, and working with leaders like you and the other members of the ECAC board and the committee and editorial board infrastructure is just so fulfilling for all of our staff. I hear it every day. And so we see it at the committee and editorial board level, where our members and our staff work together to solve the big issues facing the specialty and the society and really push forward across a lot of different fronts, tackling a lot of different issues together and doing a great job of that. We put out statements and guidelines and guidance and committee resources that help our members do their job every day, and staff find that so fulfilling. We also see how we develop our strategic plan, which is a true partnership between the EC members and staff who are teamed up to study and make recommendations for each of ASA's seven strategic pillars. We also see it every week within the EC. EC and senior staff meet every week, every Monday evening, to talk about the key issues and opportunities facing the specialty and the organization. And it's all about the communication. Everybody has a voice at every level of the organization, and we're successful because of the incredibly strong partnership between leadership and staff. And as somebody coming into the CEO role, I couldn't be more excited to be a part of that moving forward.

Let me ask you, Ron, you talked earlier about your 30 year march to this point, but what drove you specifically to pursue the president role? And I know it's only been a few months in the chair, but has anything surprised you so far?

DR. HARTER:

Yeah. Good question. So the first part of that, as far as what drove me to pursue this role, you know, as, as I mentioned, I have a long history within ASA and I very early on recognized just the terrific succession of ASA presidents over the years that I've had, and as I've gotten further into the leadership of the organization, to really get to know them and really have an appreciation for what terrific leaders they are and their ability to really help to keep our specialty and our ASA moving in a positive direction. And I wanted to have that same opportunity to have impact. I, I feel very passionately about our patients and the care that we provide for them. And so I want to be part of helping to assure that we remain, again, leading the care of our patients. And in the role that I'm in now as president. Um, that gives me really unparalleled, from an ASA standpoint, opportunity to really help to assure that we continue to move in a positive direction and to address the threats and take advantage of the opportunities facing our specialty.

As far as anything that's surprised me, I would say I've been surprised, frankly, by the, um, frequency with which I've received positive feedback from our members about various things, either if it's something that I referenced in the Monday morning outreach or something that they're otherwise aware of that ASA is addressing. And certainly there's, um, there's a fair share of criticism, if you will, of critique of maybe certain things that we're doing. But really, the significant majority is is very positive feedback from our members. And so that that certainly recharges my batteries to know that where the things that we do are recognized and appreciated by our members and resonating with them. I was bracing myself, I think, coming into this role, that I would only hear negative feedback. And so the fact that I'm getting such, um, very positive feedback with a fair amount of frequency on a variety of subjects from our members, has been a very, very pleasant surprise. I will say.

How about you, Brian? What motivated you to seek out the CEO position, and is that going as you perceived, uh, one week into it? Maybe it's a little soon to say, but uh, so far, what's your perception? And are there any surprises or plot twists that you didn't expect in the role?

MR. REILLY:

You know, ASA, where I've been for a little bit more than seven years now, was the first nonprofit that I've worked for, the first medical society that I've worked for. I've been in the for profit corporate world until I joined ASA in 2016, so I'd never worked for a mission driven organization. And when I came to ASA, I didn't really have any expectations for what that meant, and I didn't have any understanding of what that meant, and I didn't anticipate that it would impact how I viewed my work. But it really has. Working in a place like ASA that has a mission and not only a mission, but the mission that we have, which is to advance the specialty and protect the future and make sure the patients that you care for get the best care they can, that's possible, uh, really has an impact on me, and I know it has an impact on the other members of the staff. Uh, that was a surprise to me. And in fact, when I joined ASA, Paul Pomerantz, our wonderful former CEO and my boss for the last seven years, and I had an agreement that I came in as chief digital strategy officer, I would kind of right the ship on the digital side, and then he would make introductions to, uh, other societies or places where I could do that again and replicate what I did at ASA somewhere else. But it didn't work out that way. I fell in love with the place, fell in love with the members. I fell in love with the staff and fell in love with the work. And so when the opportunity came to have a greater impact, and it's similar to what you said about impact, to push our mission forward from that staff leadership position, to make sure that the mission and vision are fulfilled. I couldn't pass up on that chance.

DR. HARTER:

Great. Thank you for that. So you mentioned, uh, your close alignment and, uh, the mentorship that you received from Paul Pomeranz. And I'll just echo he really, uh, has been a terrific CEO for our organization. And I'm looking forward to your your service as CEO and carrying on the great organization that he's been able to lead for these past several years. But whether it's advice that you've received from him or from others along the way, what's the best piece of leadership advice you've ever received and how did you receive it?

MR. REILLY:

You know, um, not surprisingly, the best leadership advice I've ever gotten did come from Paul, as a matter of fact. He told me, and he showed me every single day, that the most important part of being a leader in an organization like ASA is to be a partner, to forge extremely strong partnerships with the president, the EC, the AC, the board, the House, um, communicate, advise, support, then communicate some more. And when you're finished communicating, communicate again. Get to know as many members as possible, get things done. Clear room and provide the information needed so our member leaders can think strategically and tackle the big issues facing the specialty and the society, and be the support mechanism and the partner in doing all that. Um, Paul is an amazing mentor and I'll forever be grateful to him for the opportunities he's given me. And I've been fortunate in my career. I had somebody I consider to be a mentor very early on in my career who set me on a a good path in the media world, and then to have a mentor in Paul, as I transitioned from media and advertising into the medical society world, it was just a blessing. So he's the one who gave me the best leadership I've ever received.

And how about you? What's your favorite leadership advice? And and while we're at it a week into the job, do you have any advice for me?

DR. HARTER:

Well, thanks for sharing your leadership story. I would say my favorite leadership advice came when I was, uh, chair of the Department of Anesthesiology at Ohio State, very early on. I was chair for 14 years, and then I stepped away as I was moving into the president elect role, because the responsibilities of each of those jobs were, in my opinion, I couldn't do both jobs, uh, the way that they should be done if I continued in my department leadership role. So I stepped away from the chair. I remain a member of the faculty, but, uh, no longer chair of the department. But early in my probably my first year or so as chair of the department, someone who was a anesthesiology chair at another academic department peer institution told me, don't throw your body at the problem. And, uh, that really resonated with me. And I reflected on that often. So, so basically he was saying, even though there are things that, you know, whether it's clinical or other roles that, you know, you would be able to do yourself, don't try and, you know, solve everything and do everything yourself because you, you ultimately, you're not going to be able to do it. And whether it's a big, uh, department of anesthesiology or certainly in the case of, of ASA, you know, I reflect on that as well, that although there are some things that I could do, ultimately, what I need to do in my role is to focus on the things that as president, I have sort of the unique opportunity to do and to not get too far into the micromanagement of the countless issues that comes to ASA. So, um, learning that early on as a chair was very helpful to me to help to prioritize what were the things, as department chair, that I was the only person that could address? And if there were other issues that other people could address to delegate that to them and to, you know, certainly assist them, but not to feel like I was the only person that could solve every, uh, every issue that came along.

So my advice to you, I guess, Brian, would be that I think you already do this very well, but I think, um, especially the fact that you're transitioning from COO to CEO, there's still a lot of things that you have knowledge and expertise in that you did while you were COO. But I would say, I guess, resist the temptation to try and be COO and CEO, because you will ultimately not be able to do either particularly well, and it's going to take your focus off of the things that you uniquely need to do as CEO. I don't think that that's going to be a problem for you. Um, and I think you're well aware of the wonderful team that you've got supporting you as well as, uh, the great relationship that you have and maintain with the with myself and the other physician leaders of, of ASA. But, uh, I guess I would just remind you to always be mindful of the fact that it's not,it's not you, uh, shouldering everything yourself into, uh, be sure to delegate the things that you can delegate to to the other talented people around you.

MR. REILLY:

That is great advice, and I will surely follow it. It's consistent with what I've heard from other people that I've spoken to about my transition, and that is, do what only you can do. If, as you said, don't throw your body into it. If there's somebody else who can do it, then let them. So that's terrific advice. Uh, and thank you very much for it.

Before we wrap up, I'm wondering if there's anything you wish our members understood better about ASA.

DR. HARTER:

Yeah, I you know, this is something I, uh, I think about a lot and have had, I think, further insight into this now in the role that I'm in as president, that I think there's a misperception among our members that there's not opportunity for them to be engaged in the various missions that ASA pursues, whether it's, uh, serving on a committee or an editorial board or House of delegates. ASA has plenty of things on its plate, and it really depends on the engagement of our members to really get that work done. I think ASA is somewhat unique, frankly, in the level of engagement that we have among our members. So there's a lot of member engagement on various fronts within ASA, but I think there's still a fairly significant piece of our members that just somehow view that that's not there's not a path forward for them. So I would dispel that myth that any member who wants to be more engaged with some particular aspect of what ASA does that aligns with their skill and their interest and their passion, I can assure you there's definitely a path forward for for you to be involved. And I would say in general, you can also be very much involved within your state component level. So whatever state society of anesthesiology you're a member of, if you reach out to leaders there, I don't know of a component within ASA that wouldn't just welcome more help from its members. So I think that would be the one thing that I think more of our members just need to recognize that we're open and welcoming to any assistance that our members want to provide within the various mission areas of ASA.

How about you, Brian? Any any myths that you would like to bust about ASA?

MR. REILLY:

Well, Ron, I think you hit the nail on the head with yours. If you want to be engaged with ASA, you can be. And we want you to be. And we're always looking at new ways of driving engagement and providing new opportunities to do so. So I'm very excited about what the future holds from a member engagement standpoint, because there's no limitation when you look at what ASA can offer and what the state components can offer, what the subspecialties can offer. If you want to be involved in the specialty, you can be. And if you want to be involved with ASA in particular, we'll find a way to make it happen. So that's exciting. That's great. And I think that you're right, that anesthesiology is a specialty that's somewhat unique in the fact that so many people do want to be engaged in the organized portion of the specialty. So that leads me to my last question for you, which is for members who do want to be more engaged, where should they start?

DR. HARTER:

Great, great question. And I think there's there's multiple paths forward for that. Certainly, uh, as I just mentioned, if they have any colleagues who are involved either with their state component or with ASA, those can be great resources and mentors of, you know, how how they were able to to be engaged at the state or national level. And, uh, certainly if there's a particular ASA committee that aligns with maybe their expertise or their interest or both. The ASA website has a list of all the committees and all the committee chairs, and and then from there you can search the member directory and you can just send an email to the chair of the committee that you're interested in and say, you know, is there anything I can do, anything you can help with? Because even if you're not a formal member of the committee, a lot of our committees have opportunities for people to, you know, to serve on either working groups or other subgroups within committees. And certainly, at the very least, to get yourself on the radar, potentially for being supported for appointment to that committee when the next opportunity arises, which also brings up the, uh, opportunity for a last minute plug that depending on when you hear the podcast, um, the window is open as this podcast will be released until January 15th. So if you listen to this podcast soon after it's available, um, there still would be time to self-nominate for one or more ASA committees. And so that's certainly a great path forward. And especially if the, if you bring some particular expertise to one or more committees, we want our members to dive in and help us with the with the work that we do.

All right. Well, this has been a terrific conversation, Brian. I certainly learned some things from you, and I hope our listeners did as well. Um, speaking of our listeners, thank you for joining us for Central Line. Because of your engagement, the podcast is growing in popularity, and the society has yet another great communication tool for communicating with our members and beyond. We hope you'll keep listening and join us again soon. Thank you.

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