Residents In a Room

Episode Number: 53

Episode Title: Ask the CV Expert

Recorded: July 2023

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

VOICE OVER:

This is Residents in a Room, an official podcast of the American Society of Anesthesiologists, where we go behind the scenes to explore the world from the point of view of anesthesiology residents.

It makes a lot of sense, what you were saying about dividing your CV sometimes into different eras in your life.

How do you choose what you don't include in your CV?

I really resonate with the idea of keeping some of those personal aspects on your CV.

And now we all have the Mariano Keys to creating a sparkling CV.

DR. VARINA CLARK:

Welcome to Residents in a Room, The podcast by Residents for Residents. Today we're going to discuss CVs with our guest, Dr. Ed Mariano, who knows a thing or two about creating and managing a strong CV. To help me pepper Dr. Mariano with questions so we can all learn about what to do, and what not to do, I have some fellow residents with me. But before we jump in, let's take a moment to introduce ourselves. I'll start. My name is Dr. Varina Clark and I'm a CA2 at UCLA.

DR. NATALIE KOONS:

Hi, everyone. I'm Natalie. I am a anesthesia intern here at Stanford.

DR. JUSTIN YUAN:

Hey, everyone. I'm Justin Yuan. I'm a CA3 at Stanford and one of the chief residents this year.

DR. HANNAH RASMUSSEN:

And hi, everyone. My name is Hannah Rasmussen. I'm another CA2 and am also at Stanford.

DR. CLARK:

Awesome. And then we'll have Dr. Ed Mariano, our guest of honor, introduce himself. Tell us a little bit about yourself, please.

DR. MARIANO:

Well, thank you so much. It's really an honor to be part of the Residents in a Room podcast. I'm a professor at Stanford University and I'm senior vice chair in our Department of Anesthesiology Perioperative Pain Medicine. And I also am chief of anesthesiology and perioperative pain Medicine at the VA Palo Alto.

DR. CLARK:

Thank you so much, Dr. Mariano. We're happy to have you. I guess I'll start and jump right in with the first question that we have for you today. We all know a little bit about a CV, and we know that it's a kind of necessary evil. But why? Does having a great CV versus an okay CV really make a difference? What are your thoughts?

DR. MARIANO:

So I think that especially in most of our professions, particularly in healthcare and medicine, you have to have a CV. Everyone asks you for your CV. You've prepared CVs when you've applied for medical school, for residency, and then for some of you who are already or have already applied for a fellowship or jobs, you've also had to update and submit CVS for that. And then there are also other occasions when you may just be asked for a CV. Perhaps there's a opportunity that comes up during your training, like going on a medical mission or there's a trip to Washington, DC or to for us in California, to Sacramento for Advocacy Day. And we're taking applications. Perhaps there's an award or scholarship that some of our trainees within anesthesiology, from medical students to residents, you can apply for. All of these things require you to have some some way of describing like what your career experience, education, employment really entails. And that all comes down to a CV. A CV is, at its most literal interpretation, your professional life. And so you have to have one.

DR. KOONS:

So creating a CV can be a daunting task. How do you suggest that we get started? Is there some kind of guiding principle or personal mission or area of interest that should animate the process and keep us focused?

DR. MARIANO:

I think that there are templates that you can download and they're available free online as well as most of your schools that are affiliated with your training programs will typically have some templated form just because it's required for all appointments and promotions of faculty. So that's always a good start. But chances are, before you've even started residency, you've created a CV and you've used some template that you found. Perhaps it was from a mentor or perhaps is from a friend or colleague that shared their particular version of a CV. It's helpful, I think, to look, especially before you embark too far in your career, to really look at the various different formats to see what really works well for you. And knowing very well that, depending on where you end up in terms of job, and perhaps even as you change jobs or academic departments, that the specific structure may evolve.

I think there are some common themes. And so when you look across the various types of CV templates, you'll see that there's there's at least some aspect of accounting for your education and training from undergraduate through other degrees -- medical -- and then your post graduate training, which includes your internship residencies for some people, fellowship or fellowships for some people. And then employment and I think for especially depending on stage of training and you may have multiple different eras in your career thus far that have led you to where you go. And aI find that oftentimes, as someone who reviews a lot of CVS for graduate training applications as well as jobs, awards, and and other, you know, organizational medicine functions in which I have to look at people's CVs, that really what I look for is some document that really tells the story of who you are as a physician, as a professional, and what got you there, because I think that that's something that is very difficult to tell at times from some of the very basic restrictive standard medical CVs that we see.

DR. YUAN:

Thanks for sharing that, Dr. Mariano. I still remember when I made my first CV and I was perseverating on the format such as what font do I use, what size? So I think your point about formatting is well taken. Um, in addition to the typical sections that we expect to see like education, work experience, volunteer experience, what is the benefit of a section for things like non peer reviewed publications or multimedia such as podcasts or casual blogs that are written, maybe a news article or an online video that someone makes? Do these have a spot in the CV?

DR. MARIANO:

I think that's a great question and I think it absolutely does. And part of the reason why I think that way is because if you think about the continuum of medical training from school undergraduate to undergraduate medical education to postgraduate medical training and then your eventual career, whether or not you're in academics, I think as a physician, you naturally fall into various domains in terms of your professional career. Part of that will, for almost everyone, include some clinical care, but not always. And then you'll also have domains for education, some form of scholarship, which may be more traditional research or not. It may be crossover, for example, into innovation or product design. And then there's also very natural and well established pathways in terms of leadership, which may be advocacy related in medical organizations. It could be leadership within health systems or also leadership within academic departments and committees up to departmental. Chair So I think because of those natural domains within a physician's career, you can see how there have to be homes for these different activities within your CV because they do reflect who you are in your professional life.

You know, to your question about digital publications and other media, I think they they have an essential component for CVS and where they live, I think can be very much defined. I think the newer templates, you know, do include either non peer reviewed publications, an other publications section, or even digital media specifically. And I think that you can decide where you feel like that contribution fits the most. And I think that when when using templates, I do find that electronic media really aren't very well represented just by a line item on your CV, just saying, Well, I've recorded this podcast, you know, this was the guest, this was the topic, and this is the date. Oftentimes I find even for the the word based documents or the written documents that I keep my CV in, I use hyperlinks. So that way the reader, whoever I send it to and whichever format, whether it's a link to my online document or a word document or even a PDF, you know, they can go straight to the source and they can listen or view it depending on the form of media, the source material, which I think that tells a much greater story.

What I recommend oftentimes for anyone who produces that kind of work, one advantage of digital media is that you actually have you have measures oftentimes for how much impact or how much reach that product has. That's actually much, in many ways, it's much richer than some of our traditional peer reviewed journal publications. Nowadays, I think that we, you know, the journals have gotten smarter and so they've started to track some of those alternative bibliometrics through shares on social media. But you really don't know how many people have actually read your article and done something with it. Whereas, you know, you oftentimes see how many people have downloaded a podcast, how many people have viewed a web page or or even read or shared an online blog. And so I do find that having those types of measures in your CV in order to demonstrate reach is really useful and is fairly unique, I think, to digital publications.

DR. RASMUSSEN:

Uh, that was a lot of great information, Dr. Mariano. I think it makes a lot of sense what you were saying about dividing your CV sometimes into different domains and different eras in your life. So building on that, I guess one question I have is how often do you recommend that we go in and update our CVS with different information or different accomplishments that we've achieved as time has gone on?

DR. MARIANO:

So I personally find, and this is something that I feel like I've evolved to do over the course of my career, that really updating your CV as often as possible is the most useful. And you know, it seems very impractical, but I actually am, earlier on in my career, I don't think I really appreciated the fact that having a CV that is constantly updated is extremely useful if as an active document. So as an example, the way that I format my CV is actually through a Google doc. And I do, I started doing this way since I've finished training. And part of the reason why I think I've evolved to that is because, you know, the first couple of years of my career, I just used a word document that I kept updating, and so I would have multiple, multiple versions of word documents just dated with the latest update. As I found it was actually very difficult to access it in a practical way because it just lived on my computer. And oftentimes, especially in recent years as most often I'm checking my email on my phone and responding to requests for your CV, that I really didn't have it very handy. So switching to a Google doc actually allowed me to, one, keep my CV up to date and also use it more as an active document. So, you know, whenever I have projects in place, whenever I have received notice that maybe some activity that I've done, my term has ended and maybe like a term is starting and I can just go straight to my phone and I can update it right then. So then it becomes something that is constantly being updated. And I don't have all of those multiple versions of word documents on my computer anymore. That is actually an easy thing to do when your CV, like even right now, like, you know, for all of the incredible activities and accomplishments and experiences and training and employment that our residents have today, which is much greater than it was, trust me, when I was in residency, yeah, it's still very manageable in terms of a sum total of information. So you have all the opportunity right now to take your version that you have currently, reformat it in a way that really reflects your professional life as you see it going forward, which can evolve, of course, and then put it as an online document. And that way you have easy access anytime because some of the things that maybe we don't think about as necessarily having a place on your CV, you know, may very well have that. Like, for example, as a resident or as a fellow, you may participate in courses, activities, workshops that really contribute to your own professional development. Well, you know, now in hindsight, I would say that those opportunities for learning that, you know, maybe they even involved a guest speaker who was really fairly well known for that particular topic, that can actually go into a section of professional development or ongoing education and training that may actually be reflective of who you are as a as a professional, as a physician going forward. And, you know, maybe you would have forgotten about it if you didn't update it at the time.

DR. CLARK:

Thanks, Dr. Mariano. I think that's great advice about keeping the document active, because as a current CA2, I found myself spending hours trying to update my CV for all this hospital onboarding. So that was a great that's a great idea that I'll actually implement myself. And I also think of the CV as a supplement to future applications to jobs, as you mentioned, in the health system and future leadership opportunities. But I was wondering, how else could we be using our to reflect who we are professionally and personally so that we're making, you know, a great impression?

DR. MARIANO:

And so I do think that one of the aspects when I look at now, especially for some of my mentees in residency and fellowship and then some of our early career anesthesiologists here at Stanford, as well as outside of Stanford and people have interacted with through mentoring programs in our organizations, is that they're not always divided in a way that really showcases a physician's true passion or activity. And what I mean by that is there aren't always sections that really highlight the investment and the story about that person's career. As an example, I think that we have some incredible educators whom we meet, you know, through our our training as anesthesiologists in medical school. And by the time they get to their careers and they're really focused now on anesthesiology education, either within their institutions or outside their institutions, sometimes they forget about some of the aspects of their journey that got them there. Some of them were, used to teach us like summer school, or they actually ran like Stem education within their communities or volunteered within classrooms or tutored in college. You know, some of these things sort of fall off your CV, I've noticed, as you go from level to level, because you expect that those epochs of time have now been replaced with the next epoch of time in your career. But to me, I think as someone who reviews a lot of CVs, I do think that to me they tell the story, they tell the story of someone's professional journey and the fact that someone has been committed to education and now is doing medical education at a local, regional and national level, I think is a really is to me is really compelling as far as a career calling and why someone may end up where they are. Some people have even worked as teachers prior to, uh, to medicine. And I think that that's really interesting. And then others, I think we have plenty of examples where we have trainees within anesthesiology residency or medical school or even who are now in early career, who've held other forms of employment outside of medicine or, you know, were professional musicians for many years, even while they're going through their undergraduate and graduate medical education. And now perhaps they've really found their path in the intersection of arts, humanities and medicine, which I think is is fascinating. So I do think that in some ways you have to find templates within your CV and sections that allow you to describe the activities that help shape your professional career and then arrange them in a way that makes sense. And I think that even though schools you may have their standard CV format, I still recommend that you have your own CV just because it's a format that you can control. It may satisfy the requirements for your school shen it comes to appointments, promotions, jobs and credentialing, as you mentioned. But when you're asked, for example, for your CV, when you're asked to give a talk somewhere or ask to serve on a committee, sometimes your version will tell a better story about you.

DR. KOONS:

Thank you so much for that advice. Dr. Mariano. I really resonate with the idea of keeping some of those personal aspects on your CV. For me, it was being a pre-professional dancer before medicine, and that's something that I continue to keep on my CV, and it's usually asked about every type of interaction when reviewing my CV. So I really appreciate and agree with you that keeping those personal aspects are super important for going forward in a career.

The next question I have for you is, are there resources, apps or other platforms that can help elevate or amplify our CVs? I'm sure it takes specific elegance to share sections of our CV to the digital world. What advice do you have for residents and early career anesthesiologists on how to share or amplify their own CV?

DR. MARIANO:

I mean, I would actually argue that I think our early career anesthesiologists and anesthesiologists in training are much more advanced at this than those of us who've been in practice for for many years. Part of the reason why I think is that within maybe the insular environment of academic medicine, we're used to sharing these CVS as documents. I mean, we literally used to print our CVs on paper and then you hand them to people whenever you would meet for an interview. And I think that this concept that you would share your CV outside of those closed interactions is really foreign to a lot of people. When I speak to groups of our colleagues about having a digital presence or having your CV or online profile, I mean, you could only imagine like the amount of internal angst that you you could view in the audience as they're hearing me talk about sharing all this information about themselves. But I would say that today it is expected in many ways that your reputation as a career professional, it needs to be something that's searchable. And if you think about just how much we use online searches in our daily lives and there's really no there's no doubt in my mind that anyone who's progressing in terms of their career, even if you're purely a clinically focused physician, much of your practice and how people view your practice and the individuals in it, they're going to find online. And if you're in academics, then your work as far as how much impact you have in education, innovation, research, other forms of scholarship and administrative leadership, all of those things are trackable online as well. So I do think that it's helpful for us to have an online version of your CV that anyone can access.

And I would argue, too, that many of us don't realize that you already have an online CV, that there are already, there's a lot of public information about you, and it automatically gets populated because much of what we submit to medical boards within our states is considered public information. You know, when I submit my my information from my medical license in California, the Medical Board of California, which is under consumer affairs, post that information. They have that information available. So if you if you look online and just search your name and I recommend that everyone do this, just search your name with or without your degree letters and you just see see what you find online. And you'd be shocked just how many different sites already have your name listed. Along with for some, like if you look up Doximity as an example, you know they already have your education and where you went and where you're doing your training because that's required for your medical licensure. And so I would argue because that information is already there and Doximity is really a platform that's made for health care professionals, that you claim it. That's one of the most basic things that I recommend to all physicians is to find your doximity platform and claim it. And part of the reason why I think health systems and training programs find this very useful is because Doximity’s profile is actually what feeds us News and World Report's platform for their physician finder. So they'll associate you with your health system. And of course, while US News I think is controversial these days, especially in terms of rankings for schools and that sort of thing, I think that it does provide some institutional relevance for where physicians are located as well as what services are provided by those health systems, by knowing that they are physicians in those specialties located there. And then especially for our trainees and early career faculty, I tell them that Doximity actually has a really nice profile online that allows you to feature many of the things that have been mentioned already. You know, they have sections for, let's say you get interviewed by the press, they have a section for press mentions, electronic articles, other media. You know, you can create features and links to a lot of that work online through Doximity. And it also can represent your regular CV. You can even download a version of your CV from Doximity if you prefer to just populate it there and then use that as your CV that you share with other people. And then another platform that's very well established that I've recommended to physicians and others is LinkedIn, which is sometimes I think, we don't always think about LinkedIn because we think of it as a business people platform, but it's really a people finder platform. And and the sections actually on LinkedIn are customizable. And so, you know, to Justin's point, it does allow you to really feature certain sections of your professional activity that you want to highlight. And I do think that that is a another very powerful platform that always comes up in search engines.

DR. YUAN:

Speaking of public information and what is searchable, in my own search of you, Dr. Mariano, I noticed that you didn't include your chief resident role from 2002 to 2003 in any of your public profiles, which leads me to my next question, which is how do you choose what you don't include in your CV? I know we've spent quite a bit of time talking about what we do include, but for someone like yourself that has had such a long and esteemed career, I imagine it's probably harder for you to decide what to leave out. Personally speaking, I'm always wondering what is the oldest thing on my CV that I should probably consider leaving off now? For instance, I'm really proud of my Eagle Scout Award, but that was 12 years ago. Is it is it time to let it go?

DR. MARIANO:

I'm glad you pointed that out. And maybe I should update my CV and put it back in because it was on there at one point or another. And I think that your question really raises an important issue, which is when you're updating your CV, like how far back do you go? I can remember when I moved that off my CV and restructured my CV to the form that I use now. And I think that what when I had it on my CV, I think it was I was much earlier in my career and I had a section on administrative leadership, and I did have that as one of my experiences because, as you know, and are learning very quickly as a chief resident, it was that was really my first experience in any form of health care leadership. And chief residency is a microcosm of middle management and you are always in the middle. You have your own constituents, you have your residents that you're working to advocate for, and then you also have the faculty and you have this very unique glimpse of what happens on the faculty side and the departmental operations side that most of your co-residents will never see. And I have to say that I think that my impression of having that experience during that year, I would argue, was a very strong influence towards my continued interest in having some form of health care and administrative leadership roles in my career. And so when I had few experiences with administrative leadership, then that was an item on my list. And then over the course of my career, I started getting much more involved in other leadership roles. And I think I found that it just didn't fit neatly as I started to subdivide the categories. So I started to subdivide the categories into local departmental leadership, hospital leadership, and then into a more regional leadership, especially as I got more involved in the California Society of Anesthesiologists and then national leadership with our subspecialty society that I got very involved in as a pain medicine, as well as the American Society of Anesthesiologists. And I think that's really where it fell off my list because I had changed institutions. So I went to UC San Diego, and as I subdivided those categories, it didn't neatly fit in there. So I kept I kept the overlapping educational timeline as far as where I did my postgraduate training. But now that you mention it, I should probably put it back because I do think that it was part of my professional career journey, and without it, I don't think that I would be doing what I'm doing now.

And so as far as your question, like how far back do you go? I think it really has to do with each individual's career journey. And I think that why I think that you shouldn't drop off your Eagle Scout honor, because that is it's a many, many, many year commitment, just like Natalie's commitment to dance. It's something that really is character forming and I think also shows an incredible amount of personal discipline and commitment. And I mean, having trained in now as a regional anesthesia and acute Pain Medicine Fellowship director for almost 16 years, I can tell you I've had I've had three former fellows that were Eagle Scouts. And I think that those kinds of lifelong commitments to a practice, I think you do demonstrate an incredible amount of stable performance as well as a commitment to individual improvement. And that's really something I think, in medicine that we want. You want that in your doctors. And especially as someone who interviews applicants for graduate medical education, training and for jobs, I look for that in people that I want to train and people that I want to hire.

DR. RASMUSSEN:

So kind of going to the flip side of Justin's question, you just talked about how people can kind of pick and choose what to leave off of their CV. But for those residents who might be feeling like they're lacking in things to put on their CV, what types of advice do you have in terms of how to beef up our CVs?

DR. MARIANO:

Yeah. So I think that one of the things, that we don't always give this advice, which I think is one of the areas for improvement, I think in terms of mentoring, is how how best do you describe your engagement, So, for example, many of our residents are involved in education. Some of them have done this even before starting their anesthesiology residency. But nearly all get involved in education in one way, shape or form during their training as residents or fellows. And I think that one of the things that we don't do very well is really describe educational activity. And so oftentimes in a CV you'll see a line item. So I taught this course or I gave a talk or I served on a panel or in a workshop, and it gets the same one line item attention that that any like paper or digital publication would get on your CV. But it doesn't always reflect what the time commitment is. And so for many in education, this even overlaps outside of medical education, that there's something called an educator portfolio and something that teachers developed that is outside of medicine but does have a lot of tie in, I think, to medical education, which actually allows an instructor, an educator, to really describe that activity in much more granular detail. And that means that you provide a description and that may be like, what? What is this course that you did? If maybe it was a simulation activity, maybe it was a workshop where you're teaching medical students how to use point of care ultrasound.

You talk about what was the activity, how many participants were in there, what were the learning objectives, How did you know? So if there was an assessment, for example, sometimes you have pre and post tests or sometimes you have a pre exam or post exam. Yeah. How did you know that the learners learned? And then if there are any evaluations that may have come along with that, how often you perform that activity and the time commitment that it really took, you know, to not just prepare but also to deliver the activity. And then as well as any follow up that may have been related, that really gives a much more fleshed out version of what that educational activity really entailed. And so I do find that if if some people like especially in when you're early in training, if you feel like you have very little in terms of a few line items, but the things that you've been doing are heavily educational and then take the opportunity to flesh it out as an educator portfolio so that we can really showcase the importance and investment of of your professional time in the activity.

DR. CLARK:

Awesome. So I'd like to switch gears a little bit and talk about branding. I know years ago when we think about branding, it's along the lines of marketing and business, but in today's digital age, personal branding is very much encouraged. Is there anything unique about being an anesthesiologist when it comes to personal branding? And for our anesthesiologists who are introverts, what's the value of personal branding and how can we use this to our advantage as trainees on platforms like LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram.

DR. MARIANO:

Personal branding I think for physicians, especially early in training, I think is not intuitive. I think anesthesiologists in particular are an interesting bunch in that probably the reason why I like them so much -- biased, of course -- but the reason I like anesthesiologists is because we tend not to be super hungry for attention. I think that most anesthesiologists self-select into the specialty because you recognize the importance of anesthesiology. You recognize the importance of contributions by anesthesiologists to patient safety, to patient experience, to patient outcomes. But we oftentimes you find a great amount of internal satisfaction that doesn't require a lot of external attention or we don't expect applause every time a patient emerges from anesthesia and we successfully extubate the trachea like we. That doesn't that never happens. But it doesn't matter for most anesthesiologists because you know the value of your work. And I think because of that, the concept of trying to put yourself forward in terms of personal branding to be a public figure, so to speak, I think is not intuitive. But as I mentioned, I think that we're in a very different day and age where you really have to think about what branding really contributes to reputation. And we go through every year within our department, as every department does, you know, looking at the distribution of clinical and non-clinical time as well as looking at our faculty for possible promotion because we want to be able to help our faculty progress in their careers. But the way that every single academic school of medicine, as well as other schools you look at that development of and progression in academic rank is really by reputation. And so I would argue that branding is really intrinsic to developing reputation. How do people know what you're actually good at? How do they know, you know, what you've accomplished if they're not able to find it? And so I do find because anesthesiologists are naturally introverted in that way, and actually, when I take my personality test, I always come out as introverted, which most people probably wouldn't wouldn't expect. But I think that we have many colleagues in anesthesiology, I think, who are introverts by nature and have adapted and I think that we need we need some coaching I think when it comes to letting the world know what it is that that we really do.

It's one of the most basic things that we talk about now in terms of advancing the specialty of anesthesiology is that many people in the public actually really don't recognize the work in medicine that anesthesiologists perform. And it's it's not because it's not important. It's because maybe we don't really show it as much. You know, we don't really demonstrate that work in the public arena as much as we should. You know, maybe we should. If we were, then maybe we we wouldn't be where we are right now. Continuing to have to convince the public that that there is a specialty of medicine in which we focus on anesthesiology and patient safety and pain medicine and critical care that that we spend years training for.

So I do think that those anesthesiologists who, while you're in training or and especially as you start your career, you know, try to leverage some of these existing platforms and focus on those things, those important the important work that you do. It could be clinical education, it could be teaching, it could be -- and the teaching doesn't have to be always in a formal setting of a classroom or conference or medical school -- you could be teaching your colleagues. If you're taking the lead and you're training people in the next level of evidence based care in anesthesiology, know whether it's implementing new guidelines or developing new techniques and clinical pathways that improve patient outcomes. Then put those things on your online front facing CV, which can be, as I mentioned, it can be a document you share, but it also could be a platform that already exists that you happen to use. You claim your profile and make sure that the world sees what you do as an anesthesiologist.

All right. Now, I have a couple of questions for you all. I'm curious after our conversation. And thank you all for the incredible questions and the conversation. But what are one or two things that perhaps we discussed that maybe you didn't know about before? And the second part of that is, is there something that you're doing that we didn't talk about that I'm not doing that maybe I could learn from.

DR. KOONS:

So think for me the one thing that I really learned from listening to this discussion is having a theme for your CV and really organizing your CV in a way to personally brand yourself or what you're going for. So think, you know, going forward in a career, if you're interested in leadership versus advocacy versus research, kind of curating your CV to those specific points and maybe highlighting them closer to the top of your CV to highlight the theme or mission of that specific CV for that specific role. So that's something I hope to kind of take with me within my career in residency and finding my own passions and pathways as well as interests down the line.

DR. MARIANO:

Thanks, Natalie.

DR. CLARK:

Yeah, I would agree with Natalie. One of the things that I've been thinking about as I've revisited my CV multiple times has been how does this reflect me? And similarly to what you were saying earlier on, reflecting on who we are and making sure that this, you know, couple page document really reflects that accurately has been something that I've had to ask myself upon revisiting it each at each stage of my life. And so I think it's great to add all of my activities on there. But I also want to make sure that when I'm prepping for whatever position or leadership opportunity that I'm coming against, I'm also making sure that this document reflects me and my mission statement and my goals in the future. So I think the way that you put it in terms of our personal and professional reflection has been great, and I'll keep that in mind as I move forward.

DR. MARIANO:

Thanks, Marina.

DR. YUAN:

And I'd say my two big takeaways are one, to not undervalue the importance of a multimedia or other publication section as well as I'm taking a lot of encouragement from you, Dr. Mariano. Think I will leave my Eagle Scout on for a little bit longer, as well as this chief resident role, I think will really say a lot and define me for the time being moving forward, but of course open to reevaluating how that fits into my my narrative and then not something that you haven't done before. But one thing that I am looking forward to as well as we'll be doing in a month is that I'm part of the Stanford Global Health Pathway. So in a month I'll be traveling to Kigali, Rwanda and doing an educational exchange with the residents over there. And I'm super excited and I think there's probably a good spot for my that this will fit in.

DR. MARIANO:

That's a great example. And actually and really important because I think that right now I'm one of the great things about being in anesthesiology residency is that you have tremendous opportunity to explore paths, keep those in. I think all those all those experiences, you know, really feed into the story about your professional career journey and which is why people CVS get longer and longer and longer. But that just says you've had a rich career. You know, hopefully by the end of everyone's careers that, you know, there's a nice long document and that tells the story of you.

DR. CLARK:

Well, this has been a really interesting and informative conversation. And now we all have the Mariano Keys to creating a sparkling CV. Thanks to Dr. Mariano for sharing his expertise and to my fellow residents for joining us for this chat. And thanks to our listeners for tuning in for this episode of Residents in a Room, the podcast for residents by residents. We hope you'll join us again soon.

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